Hello everyone. Thank you for joining today's live webinar. I'm your host, Dr. Shah Siddiki. As you know, this is a little bit unusual time that we do usually our live on Wednesday and Thursday, every week or every other week from our usual channels. But today, we have a very special live, and we will continue this live, um, in the next six months, every Tuesday from 11:00 to 12:00 for 45 minutes. And we are doing this live, as you may know, that I joined Access Advisor as a business development director of business development. And I'm working hand to hand with Rob Trent.

So, we're going to be introducing Access Advisor today and as well as discuss the core motivation of Access Advisor, why it is necessary, really needed, and the behind of the great cause that Rob has brought forward to attract people and work with disabled people around the world to make it happen.

So, we have our special guest, Rob Trent. And you probably already know Rob Trent. I knew him for a few months now, working with through Conversity. And now we become friends, and now we are working together. So Rob, how are you today?

I'm good, thank you. And thank you very much for inviting me onto the webinar and thank you for the work that you're helping us do with Access Advisor. I really appreciate it.

Thank you, Rob. Because you know, your project, Access Advisor, it has a depth. And as well as, I was thinking while doing a lot of technological innovation and a lot of other things, that accessibility is core for a disabled person, as myself disabled. And you as well, and many other people engaged with this Access Advisor initiatives, 90%, the majority of them, are disabled persons.

So, when we go outside, if you see me normally, you don't feel that I'm disabled because I used to use a stick and now I don't use sticks because I was in like bullying and all other things, people bullied me. When they see me, they think that I am a fully, you know, workable person. They don't see the internal things and all other disabilities I have. So then, I just stopped taking my stick. It's it's hard, it's hard, but, you know, it's just I have made my decision to do that. But many other people, if they want to, they can't because they might need a wheelchair, they might need a stick, or they might need some of the aids that are made for them, tailored to them.

And I have experience going to a place in relation with day-to-day activities, shopping, and a lot of other things. Accessibility is not there. And when I see that you're working with a great cause, I couldn't stop myself because I think working with you, we can grow this project to the next levels. So, I just wanted to set the scene here. If you could introduce our audience about you and about Access Advisor, that would be great.

Brilliant. Thank you. Thank you for that introduction. Um, obviously, I'm Rob Trent. I'm in my 60s now, so I've faced accessibility issues for a very long time. Um, where can I start? I'm a wheelchair user and that that is the aspect of disability which is my lived experience. And it was for that reason that I started Access Advisor. I understand, you know, that it was set up with regard to a sort of a focus on on wheelchair users. And as it's sort of developed over the years, I want it to be more inclusive of other disabilities. That's why it's great to have you on board, someone with a disability that isn't so visible and can give me another view and give the business another view of a lived experience, a different perspective of disability. And and that's what I that's what I want to do. Access Advisor has been going for quite a long time now, over 10 years. It's sort of bumbled along and I feel that there's something there, there's still something there. I just haven't got the right business model yet, but I feel there's something there that we can help take this forward. And I think widening it to different disabilities, that's going to be the way forward for us. I'm disabled, I'm very frustrated with accessibility issues over the years. I'll not deny that they've got better, but when I started it was the kind of thing that drove me and it drove me mad and it drove me into setting up the business.

I totally agree with you, Rob, because you know, people now, government as well as private organizations, they are thinking about accessibility. When I came here in the UK in 2004, it was such a long time ago. I did not have my disabilities and I did not feel for it. But when I had my brain tumor surgery in 2009, I became partially disabled. And from that time, I felt that we are not right there. We have to work long, you are working 10 years now, and still we are not there. If I go to local shopping, some of the places they have wheelchairs. Some of the places they have parking. But some of the places if I go to shop, they don't have any accessibility measures. They don't think about disabled people. So they bypass it. And we have to work together to fix those things because you may say, okay, I'm a... maybe if you give an example of a superstore. So I don't care about disabled people, this is not for them. But they don't write it properly, like okay, this superstore or this place or this shop is not for disabled people, it's not accessible. But what they do, they write, okay, they they do equal opportunities, they do accessibilities, they do all of those things. But particularly, it's not there. So I wanted to ask you, how can businesses take practical steps to improve accessibility rather than pen and paper?

So first and foremost, let's start with, I think you said that businesses aren't there right now. And I would agree, businesses will never ever be there as such. It's always going to be a moving feast. There'll be changes, there'll be improvements, there'll be technological developments which make things more accessible. But I would say, far from being there, I would say in the last 10 years or maybe slightly more, we've actually gone backwards in terms of accessibility. We're seeing that disabled people are occasionally considered less than they were in the past. And your question as to how businesses can improve things like accessibility, I think they need to listen to what disabled people are saying about their business. And that's why, that's one reason, well it's a major reason why I felt Access Advisor would be such a good thing in today's society. I think what I want it to be is a kind of Tripadvisor for disabled people where the focus is on not on the food was rubbish or the water was too cold, but the accessibility was wrong. And I want to take it forward and I want more disabled people to get involved and sort of bring forward their thoughts and we take them to businesses. And if they want to take it to their business, take it to a business because the more people you include in your business and in your services, the wider your market is. I mean, that's that's just obvious, you know, there's a there's a financial reason as well as an ethical and moral reason for improving accessibility.

I do get what you're coming from. But you know when people think about accessibility, there's a huge investment there. They need to think about it properly, plan properly, and then execute their methodology to create accessibility. Big corporations, they are very well ahead. As you talk about Tripadvisor or Trivago and all other big companies, accessibilities are there. The council, they are prioritizing it. But still, if you think about the population, they really don't get the core essence of accessibility because if you have family members, they are disabled, they understand because they see the living experience day-to-day. But some people, if they don't have that experience, they don't feel for it. As you know, I do regular programs, webinars and podcasts. Last week, I had a comment on one of my podcasts. I was talking about accessibility, I was talking about why we need to support disabled people. Someone mentioned to me on there, go to India, Pakistan, or Bangladesh and you will see how they treat you. And I think, yes, that comment wasn't proper because I felt myself a person living in the UK with my soul. And I have the right to stay here and as well as live like other people. And on the contrary, if you think about disabled people, they are equal to the non-disabled people. Yes, we need some additional supports, we need some additional things that has to be tailored. And you said that businesses, when they think about accessibility, they attract more people and it's equal for everyone.

But are we ready? Because you're working for the last 10, 15 years, and you were disabled before that. So with the community, still having people saying this kind of odd words, that okay, go to your country. Like go to your country. This is my country. Yes, I didn't get born here, but this is my country. So still people are using that kind of bad language. What we need to change?

Well, I think we need to, as disabled people, we need to make sure that if we work for an organization, that we're influencing that organization in any way they can. So if a business is coming up with a new project and you're a disabled person that works for that business, then make sure that that business is considering disabled people when they're designing things. We need to be in at the start of things. And that applies at government level, at international business levels, national business, and even down to local things. Where, you know, the saying is nothing about us without us. And I can't speak for your lived experience, but I think it applies that, you know, what we need to do is make sure that we can get involved in any change that's going on and try and improve things. And again, I'll come back to the fact that that's what I think Access Advisor is for, to try and get us as disabled people involved.

I totally agree with you. And I know that we have, I think around 1,000 people supporting us with Access Advisor in your Facebook groups and as well as all our website and social media. So I especially thank all those people they are supporting Access Advisor. And we need your support to extend our work because we have taken some projects. So I and Rob, we are working together to create the next level Access Advisor. And until we succeed, we will do it and we will not take rest because we think that we can create the next level Access Advisor for disabled people. Like if you wanted to travel any place in the UK, you can find information on Access Advisor, like the accessibility, food, restaurant, and all other things will be out there. There are lots of tons of information already on Access Advisor websites. So if you wanted to visit the Access Advisor websites, please visit Access Advisor and as well as record your experience because we need impartial add-ons from you that okay, you've been to a place and how accessible they are. And then we can ask them like, okay, we know someone, one of our members has been to your place and at that place, I think you can improve these facilities to make them more accessible, make them more happy. Because I went, you know, I talked to you last time, I went to Legoland in May with my son. As I have accessibility issues, it's difficult for me to go round with a, you know, normal person, those who are not disabled. And I found one critical thing that if you wanted to hire a wheelchair from them, they charge money. So it's not the thing. And some of the things aren't accessible as well. So this kind of experience, if we can get an honest review, we can add them to the Access Advisor website and we can also write to the authority of the particular business that okay, you are doing a great job, you are earning lots of money, that's okay, that's not a problem, but think about accessibility, think about those people or design something for disabled people, they can enjoy. Because most of the rides, I think 90% of the rides I've been through there, are not made for disabled people.

So, next question, what are the most common mistakes made in public or commercial accessibility design?

Okay. I'm going to, I will answer that. I just want to come back to your your point and the earlier thing that you raised about a thousand people on our Facebook group. That's a great number, but it's still really small in the in the grand scheme of things. And you know, if we want to have a successful business that's owned by, run by, and working for disabled people, then we need loads more people to come and join us. And you know, that's what we're here for. I'm not the expert, you're not the expert. We're all experts in our own disability and our own lived experience. So, you know, please come on board and join us and together we can grow this business and make it something that works for disabled people.

Now, I think your question was the big mistakes that businesses make around accessibility. Well, I think the physical aspects of accessibility are important, in terms of, you mentioned Legoland and the rides that are not accessible. Um, I think it's not just the physical act of being there. I think these things start from designing ticketing websites that aren't accessible. You know, so many organizations now, you have to buy tickets online or if you buy a ticket, you can't buy it as a disabled person with a carer online, you have to go to another ticket office and they take ages or the systems are poorly designed so that you can't buy a wheelchair accessible space with your helper. And I'm sure there are issues that other disabled people face, you know, hearing impaired or vision impaired people with disabilities that face issues with the websites. They're not clear, they're not easy to read, they don't scroll well, the text is the wrong contrast. I don't know all of these issues. I'm only an expert in my own particular place. So, you know, come along, share your disability and your issues with us and we can put right those businesses and hopefully help them. We're not there to just criticize for the sake of it, we're there to make constructive comments and provide useful feedback. So many mistakes that organizations make, I think, can be put right with user involvement. Did I answer your question properly?

Yes, I totally agree with you because you know, I know there are disabled designers, I know there are brilliant disabled people, architects, artists, software developers, and many other characteristics. You can name them in every dimension and domain. But when people they are thinking about disability, either you need to know or have experience working with disabled, or you are disabled. If you don't have these two things, you can't design a proper place for them. I have sensory impairment. I cannot go to a loud place because if I go to a loud place, I am deaf and I have short vision. So, if I'm designing something for an impairment, I would consider like, okay, this could happen to them. So when they are designing such things, it has to be like longitudinal research. Like, okay, if you're thinking designing a place, you need to think about all those characteristics, who can come here. I understand it's a lengthy process and expensive process, but you can tailor things, maybe this is suitable for these five domains, not everyone. So then we know that yes, this is not for me. It's clearly defined.

Absolutely. And I agree with you that, you know, nothing will ever be fully accessible to everyone. There will always be things that I can't do, whether I like it or not, the cost of making something accessible would be prohibitive for that organization. But things like, recently I went to an attraction, I'm not going to name it, I'm not going to say it on here, but I went there and I paid a very full price and in the end of the day when I got in, I could only go on a very small percentage of rides. And to me that is just, you know, that's wrong. Why should I be asked to pay a full amount when I can only enjoy less than half, probably even less than a third of the experiences on offer? So, you know, I understand that those rides will never be accessible to me, but then I think, you know, there are adjustments that you can make and one of those is not charging someone the full price for experiencing that entertainment.

That's a great suggestion, Rob.

Thank you, Rob. And we have our second guest now. We are nearly at the end of our session. So thank you very much, Deborah, for joining today's live webinar. We were talking about accessibility, we're talking about how we can make accessible places. So, I wanted to drag you into the conversation and ask you a question regarding accessibility. What do you think is the main constraint keeping us separate from the mainstream and disabled people?

Sorry, I didn't quite hear that.

Oh, so I'm asking what are the main difficulties for getting accessible places?

Well for me, it's mostly physical.

In what way?

Well, just some places aren't wheelchair accessible.

Do you find...

...they said they are, but then they said they've got a little step, which for me wouldn't be accessible. I couldn't be able to manage on my own.

And I think that's one of the founding reasons why I started Access Advisor was exactly using that excuse that businesses get. They'll say, "Yeah, it's accessible. We've just got a tiny step," and they don't realize how a wheelchair needs, even a big step is no good at all for a powered wheelchair.

They just assume you've got help. But to me, to be independent needs to be fully accessible.

Yeah. So in relation to that, Deborah, I just want to ask you, the knowledge is there, but the people they are creating the accessible places, they are not knowledgeable enough. Shall we say that? Because as Rob described, that yes, we are accessible, but we have a little bit of a thing that is not accessible, but that makes your life worse because you cannot, with a wheelchair, cross that barrier.

But also, it makes you feel if it's not fully accessible, it doesn't make you feel welcome. Makes you feel like they don't really want you there.

Yeah, and again, if I can just sort of butt in, I think you've touched on another very good point for Access Advisor, whereby when people can rate a place on our website, they can rate it in terms of ease of access, but they can also give a rating on staff helpfulness because sometimes you can have a quite inaccessible place and the staff will be wonderful and really helpful and make the experience quite wonderful. On the other hand, sometimes you can have a place that is very accessible and the staff or whoever worked there just are not helpful at all. So I think that's another very good point you raised.

Thank you. I found a lot of it's awareness, people are aware, they just don't realize. And sometimes they can make simple adjustments.

Yeah, and I'm sorry I didn't get the link to you earlier, but you're just touching on things that we did say earlier, that people don't realize. And the way to get people to realize is to involve disabled people in the design of these things.

Yeah, sorry I couldn't join earlier, sorry.

That's okay.

No, that's okay. So, um, I wanted to ask you, Deborah, if you could introduce yourself, your disability, and what really you want from any business in relation with accessibility for the disability you have.

For me, somewhere has to be wheelchair accessible and have a wheelchair accessible toilet. That's my most important thing for me.

Yeah, we can see that there are many places, you can see a wheelchair accessible facilities and as well as toilets. But still, the design feature is not there. So in relation to that, have you ever been invited to any of the work that people are doing nowadays for corporations, for businesses, for the council to talk about how they can make places accessible? Any of you, Rob?

I'll let Deborah go first.

I always try to give feedback on places I've been to, and it's quite nice when you get replies like, "Oh, we didn't realize that." And I've also been doing some work with a thing called Barnwood Trust which works in Gloucestershire and they try to make sure places are accessible.

Thank you. In the past, yes, I've done work with the football supporters, football stadium design council to help come up with guidelines for, you know, wheelchair users at football grounds, ticketing things, been involved in user groups. And when I worked for my organization, I did a little bit of work there on the equality and focus group. At the football club that I support, I've also previously been a member of the equality and inclusion group. So, you know, there are things that I try and do because it's easy to just say how you want change, but it's better to get involved and try and as Deborah said, get in there and work with them to improve. Telling them they're rubbish won't get you any changes at all.

I try to give constructive feedback to places and sometimes it's just a matter they haven't realized, and they make such a difference.

So, together we are very strong. Alone we are none. So we need to work together to rise above everything that we would do, because the stronger we be, the more facilities we can create for future generations. So thank you everyone for joining today's live webinar. Thank you Rob, and thank you Deborah. And I and Rob will welcome you all our next month, second week, Tuesday for the live webinar again. And until then, stay tuned. Please like our YouTube channels. We have an Access Advisor YouTube channel, we have a Facebook group, we have LinkedIn pages. So we are everywhere. So if you wanted to support us, you can support us through our social channels. So until next episode, thank you very much, and bye-bye.

Bye everyone.

Okay, thank you. Bye.