Hello everyone. Thank you for joining today's live webinar. As usual, I'm your host, Dr. Shah Siddiki, and I have my co-host, Rob Trant. And we're going to be discussing today specifically access advisor with Pressalit. And you know, we're going to be discussing about Pressalit, and we have a special guest today to introduce you. Rob, thank you very much for joining me today. How are you?
I'm very good, thank you. It's been a busy week but and it's starting to get cold now, so I'm feeling the weather, but very good.
Yeah. So, if you are watching this live webinar today and you don't have any clue who we are, I'm Dr. Shah Siddiki and I'm working with Access Advisor for nearly a year now and we working to create a disable accessible places list with our Access Advisor methodology. So, we have a website and with that website, we will list most of the accessible places in the world. And Rob is the founder of Access Advisor. Rob, if you would give a little bit of introduction of yourself, please.
Yeah, well, I'm sort of, I was born disabled. I'm quite, quite, been around a few years now. And I started Access Advisor a few years ago, and we've been sort of looking and working to find people to partner with us. And one of the people we found to partner with us, and I'm delighted to say that Pressalit have rejoined us as a, as a premium partner, and that's why we're speaking to Andrew Lounds today, who is the UK Sales Director for Pressalit. And we're going to be talking to Andrew about Pressalit, going to let him introduce himself, find out more about Pressalit, what they do and what Andrew does in specific, what Andrew does specifically, and also how Access Advisor can help and support Pressalit in what they do.
Thank you. Thank you, Rob.
So we have our guest speaker, Andrew Lounds. And he's from Pressalit. So Andrew, thank you very much for your valuable time and joining this live webinar. How are you today?
Very good. Thanks for having me and hello to everyone out there. Um, it's a pleasure to be here.
Yeah. So, as this is a live webinar and I wanted to ask you, could you please introduce yourself to our audience? Who you are and why and what you do?
Yeah. Sure. Yeah, so, my name's Andrew Lounds and I work for a Danish company called Pressalit. And I've actually worked for Pressalit for over 25 years now, so it must be a good place to work and indeed it is. And Pressalit is a Danish company, we're known for designing accessible bathroom solutions for people.
And we've been around since 1952, and I guess you could say that design, a good design is in our DNA, if you like. And since the 1970s, we've focused quite heavily on supportive and assistive products for people with disabilities in the bathroom, but since the beginning of this century, we also extended that out to kitchens as well.
Um, so we do a variety of products which are designed for people with all sorts of disabilities, but not only that, I think where we start from is believing that we must provide flexible solutions because no two people are going to be the same. So our thinking and certainly part of our design process is that things adapt to people, people don't need to adapt to things or rooms. And we take that philosophy very seriously on the bathroom side of things, specializing in flexible and adaptable solutions that adapt to different users.
That's, that's the great interaction, Andrew. And thank you very much for joining today's live and we may have some question from the audience and we will answer those question specifically when in in the next segment. Before I jump into question you, Andrew, I just wanted to ask Rob. Rob, as you know, we give an introduction to the audience in every episode. I think those people they don't understand what is Access Advisor. Could you give a brief introduction about Access Advisor?
Yeah, certainly. I started Access Advisor because basically fed up with poor accessibility, accessibility being described but not actually matching the reality. And so I thought it was a place where anybody who has a disability or friends of people who are disabled could could rate and review places that are accessible. And since then, it's grown into, we've set up a Facebook group. You know, we have a community of a thousand members, and we want to work also with partners like Pressalit who who who champion, champion accessibility as much as we do and believe in accessibility. And I think, you know, one of the things Andrew touched on then is that, you know, these solutions must adapt to fit people, not the other way around. And that was something that I picked up on what Andrew was saying. And one of the things I think is important for me and has struck me in the last few years, and is a very good example of that, are the changing places facilities that are popping up all over the country. And I know that Pressalit has an involvement in those. And I was wondering if Andrew could talk about changing places in particular before we sort of move on to anything else, because I'm fascinated by changing places. I have to say that, you know, I've been to places like Center Parcs in the last few years and and now they have a changing places facility. And it's so much easier for people like myself who can't manage, say, sort of what I would call ordinary standard accessible toilets. So Andrew, what what is Pressalit's involvement in changing places?
Well, our involvement in changing places has kind of evolved, I guess, over the years. But um, changing places came about because people were challenging the the general assumption that standard accessible toilets, if you can call them that, that were standardized in the building regulations were suitable for all people. So, um, many of our our viewers and hearers might be familiar with standard accessible toilets. They're usually in a a small room which is about 1.5 meters wide by 2.2 meters in depth. And then you have a small toilet placed in the corner alongside a small sink. And things can get very tight and difficult to use. And when these layouts were originally introduced, they were intended for people that were independent, um, largely, um, who could perhaps position their chair alongside or if they're using a wheelchair and get themselves on and off the toilet independently. But for people who have more complex needs, a standard arrangement just isn't suitable. So the changing places toilets came about, they've been around for 20 odd years, I would say. And um when they initially were um being introduced, we had a bit more involvement in terms of designing layouts for people. And we were able to introduce a variety of different product solutions including wash basins that would move left and right so that the basin could be brought within reach of the toilet for hand washing and then moved out of the way to create space for wheelchairs and mobility equipment and carers and and helpers. But um, as the changing places campaign gathered momentum and importance, um, standard arrangements were soon adopted by um the British standard, they came out into BS 8300 around about 2009, I think, from memory. And um we have a layout which has been pretty much used consistently since then with some modification. Um and um we've seen almost a standardization of changing places, um which is good and bad. Um so they're always two sides to the coin. Uh but what we have seen and what's really encouraging um over the last few years especially is just the increase in number of changing places. So we've seen it grown from literally ground zero, a big fat zero, all the way up to something like 3,000 changing places in the United Kingdom. And um the thrilling thing really um for us as um manufacturers and as an organization which is really passionate about inclusion and um providing, as I said earlier, those solutions that adapt to different users, really thrilling thing for us is that we've seen the growth of changing places not just in the UK, but in other countries around the world. Um most of which we're operating in. So um Ireland, North America, Australia, New Zealand, um are at the forefront of changing places. And I do a little bit of work out in the Middle East from time to time and we're starting to see people get interested in changing places in um locations like the Gulf states which is another good thing. Various aspects of changing places get picked up in other um countries as well. So um I I do a little bit of work in India as well. We we've seen the height adjustable change tables that feature in changing places introduced into public accessible facilities out there as well. So they don't call them the same name, but they're starting to um pick up on some of these um products which are featured in changing places. Changing places is also getting quite large now in Scandinavia, which is good because that's where our roots are as an organization. And other European countries like Germany as well, um Holland, and Belgium, they're starting to pick up on it as well. So um it's really um a facility if you like or um an application which is fitting for our philosophy and fitting for the products that we specialize in as well. So that that's why we're very keen to to be associated with the the changing places um campaign uh and also to educate people about changing places. That's one of the big things that we do with architects.
Thank you. I I just want to ask one more question if that's okay for Andrew. I've just returned from a fortnight in Florida, Disney specifically. And I was really surprised that they didn't have or I couldn't find a single changing place. And that's a sort of exact place where I would have thought something like a changing places facility or or more than one would would be absolutely perfect. Are there plans to sort of, so of, bring education to that area?
Yeah, well they do actually have them. So, so they call them changing spaces. Um, so there's always going to be this difference in language, isn't it? And what people call things. But um in the UK and and other places like Ireland and Europe, typically a changing places features an adult size change table and um a ceiling hoist uh to to maneuver people around. You'll have a toilet away from the corner, so that's different from the standard arrangement that I mentioned right at the very beginning. So there's space all the way around the toilet for for wheelchairs and mobility equipment and carers. And then there's a height adjustable sink. So that that's that's usually the arrangement for changing places in the UK, Ireland, other countries. Uh in the states they're not quite so generous. Um but um one of the reasons I believe is because their changing spaces are always made available to people so they don't have restricted access perhaps with radar keys or um a security number that you need to put in. So usually it's just a height adjustable adult size change table. So those are in um airports in the states. Uh we we've done some very good projects with airports. Um uh Pittsburgh is is one that comes to mind. Uh and also we do installations in um sports stadia, you know, um football grounds, baseball stadia, places like that. So they are there but perhaps the changing places campaign isn't as vocal as it is in other parts of the world. And um the code isn't as generous. So we have the British standard that supports also DOC M in the UK, um the same in Ireland. Uh but um the ADA which is kind of uh an international code as well is really quite limiting in terms of the amount of equipment which is provided for accessible toilets.
Okay.
So a bit of work there but but they are they are um...
Yeah.
...they are out there as well.
Making progress.
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Yeah.
Okay.
How organizations can make accessibility central to their design approach?
Well, I think there's a a number of ways in in my opinion they can do it. The first is to be listening to the people that use the building or the facility. So that that's the key thing, to to listen to user experience. But um I also go back to the um assumption that we've always gone along with and that is that one particular room will will never be suitable for everyone. And um it's it's crucial that we adapt the built environment to people and not the other way around. So, um it's fancy words if you like, but it is core to what we believe. Um but what that translates to most of the time is building in flexibility. So that isn't always flexibility in terms of um products and in terms of what we offer um within the Pressalit range. Um it might be a variety of things that you have in terms of flexibility. So it could be that if you're providing a particular service, you're prepared to go out and visit people. You don't always require them to come to you. So you need to have a flexible approach which um adapts to different people's requirements, whatever that might be. Um but um regarding the built environment, yeah, there there's lots of things that we can do to build in flexibility to future proof um rooms, not only bathrooms and toilets and kitchens but elsewhere.
Thank you very much, Andrew. Uh you know, um, talk about accessibility and how important is uh for the people uh to understand because uh as um uh Rob said about uh USA he just been visiting um and I I we also talk about uh my recent visit this year uh to the Legoland. So what I found that is is is not fully accessible for person like me or person like Rob. Uh how you organization is working with the big giant companies or corporation to facilitate specifically tailored solution for us.
Yeah, well was that Legoland in the UK or was it somewhere else?
Yes.
Yeah. Well, well Legoland um yeah, they they do have um changing places toilets. Um I I I don't know how well they're signposted, that's another issue of course because sometimes people uh build some lovely um facilities but if they don't let people know exactly where they are then they don't get used. So that's part of the challenge is making sure that there's clear signage to uh different things that people can benefit from uh in in the physical built environment but also online uh when people perhaps researching a venue before they they visit it. So there's always that job for uh goods and services providers, um and uh organizations like Legoland. Um certainly we would always champion uh those um facilities like changing places, but we would also get involved in the design stage. So we do quite a lot of um education with architects in the UK. We have um a seminar which is approved by the Royal Institute of British Architects. And um we we we do education with them. So at the design stage, after the event, it's more challenging. So trying to fix things afterwards, um, uh is, is um, is more difficult, but with the blank sheet of paper at the design stage, um, yeah, that that that's where we're active and that's where we're trying to influence things.
That's, that's, that's a great explanation, Andrew. Um, my next question to you. Uh, you know, you do facilitate accessible um toilets and kitchen. What's the biggest challenge you encounter every day for your day-to-day work?
The biggest challenge is always going to be space.
Yeah.
So um especially in in the UK. So yeah, it's just the size of um bathrooms and kitchens, um extremely small. So there there are things that we can do to overcome space. But when you think that you've got to accommodate things like turning circles, you've got to accommodate the space of carers and assistants. Um uh uh turning circles, you know, for someone who's using a pair of sticks could be 1,200 millimeters across, for wheelchairs they can be between um 1,500 to over 2 meters. So 1,500 millimeters to 2,000 millimeters. Uh and then when you factor in things like um assistance working alongside people, uh helping them out, um trying to squeeze that into a bathroom and a toilet, trying to squeeze that into a a kitchen and a domestic setting can be can be very difficult. Um so I would say, yeah, that that's that's definitely the biggest challenge.
Thank you, Andrew. Um, thank you very much for uh your question today. Uh for your um... Rob, do you want to ask any additional question to um Andrew?
Well, I think something that Andrew touched on earlier was quite important to me. And Andrew said about um the standard toilets not being, you know, uh very good. I mean for people with more complex needs. I mean, my needs haven't necessarily changed, but with age and with, you know, as you get older, you get less flexible, I'm now relying more on changing places toilets than I was, you know, when I was able to transfer with these and now, you know, I'm heavier now, undoubtedly, and and find transferring a lot more difficult. So changing places for me have become, you know, a really good place and when I go to a service station now, you know, I can use a changing places facility there and we're going to Center Parcs in December, and there are changing places facilities there, and it just makes the weekend so much more relaxed, you know, and I think that's really the key is that for someone disabled like myself, and I'm not speaking for everyone, but for someone disabled like myself, these places are, you know, a Godsend really. You go away for a weekend and you're not worrying about the toilet all the time, you're thinking, well, yeah, I know there's a changing place. I can go there. And so, I mean, that wasn't really a question, but I guess my other question to Andrew um was at least one other question is how do you feel that, you know, we're delighted to have to have Pressalit back as a as a partner. And my question is, how can we support Pressalit in what we do and and try and bring Pressalit to a greater range of people and our community.
Yeah, that's that's a very good question. Thanks Rob. So, I I think um um one of the things that really attracts me to Access Advisor is the reports that you do. And um how you highlight uh certain things that need to be changed. And um one of the things that we campaign or provide education on is is this or challenge people about is this assumption that the standard accessible toilet is suitable all the time. Um and um I think uh yeah, our our focus is largely on the architectural community, but it is broader than that. And um it's trying to um convince people not to just um approach things with a tick box exercise. So um you you won't be surprised to hear me say that um most of the time uh that's what we discover is the approach in in the um sort of design community or also the the construction community is, okay, well it's an accessible toilet, this is what you do, plop, in it goes, the DOC M pack, we've done our job, we we've been good, haven't we? So, um we we don't have to worry about things, we we've done what's required of us. But actually we we'd like to challenge that and we'd like to point out the difficulties with uh the standard accessible toilets and it's not necessarily the jump from a a standard accessible toilet to a changing places toilet. It could be something as simple as just telling people, hey, wouldn't it be a good idea just to put two hinged arms either side of the toilet in the DOC M pack so that that helps people stand up and sit down. Wouldn't it be a good idea to offer perhaps a little bit of height adjustment in some of these accessible toilets so that we can get different heights for different users. And we can um work on that basis that no standard arrangement is going to suit everyone. So, um, it's not necessarily as I say going from uh the DOC M pack to the changing places. That's quite a big jump. But there are things that we can do incrementally that would really improve the accessibility. Um, just thinking outside of the box and allowing people to think outside of the box and do that little bit extra. Um thinking in terms of perhaps color contrast of supportive and assistive products up against the walls and the floors that they they're against to to make sure that we get things right perhaps for partially sighted people. So there's a whole variety of things that we can do. So Access Advisor being out there, doing um the reports that you do, um doing it from a lived experience um angle as well, um so it's not some, you know, sort of an expert that thinks they know best. Um I I think is a tremendous way that that helps Pressalit and helps us get across um our message as well.
Thank you. And I I think for me, we've talked a lot about um bathroom solutions, but I know that when we first met and we were looking, we were, we met at a place called Flat Spaces which is holiday accommodation for disabled people with much more complex needs. And I believe Pressalit had a lot of involvement in Flat Spaces. And one of the things that Pressalit also did, and you talked about height adjustable things, was the kitchen area as well. You have a lot of involvement in in in kitchen accessible kitchen solutions. And I was fascinated, you know, it means that disabled people um can actually get involved in in in in kitchens if they want to. Personally, that would be my nightmare, so I try and stay clear of anything accessible in the kitchen. I can boil a, I can burn an egg, I think sometimes. And uh but you know, I was fascinated by Pressalit and thought what they're doing is wonderful. This, you know, this was a, and what struck me about these solutions is that they don't look like funk, you know, they're beautifully designed as well. The design is more, as important as the function, the form, yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. They look good. They don't look like hospital equipment or things like that. You know, so that was something that that I was very impressed with.
Yeah, yeah. Well Flat Spaces was a a fantastic project. Yeah, so we we met Tom Yendell um years ago and um uh worked together in designing the bathrooms and the kitchens. Um and uh yeah, I mean what what was being done at Flat Spaces kind of fits into our philosophy and it was to go beyond the standard arrangements. I mean if Flat Spaces had um hopefully architects won't feel offended if they're listening in, but if it had been left to architects, they would have gone to the building regulations, they would have done a cut and paste and you would have ended up with uh toilets close to the corner. You would have ended up with um uh the the minimum requirement perhaps because of a lack of understanding or perhaps um because of uh uh budgets um restrictions as well. But with Flat Spaces, um it's a a tremendous site, you know, fantastic uh holiday accommodation. I only wish there were more Flat Spaces. There were more projects like that. There were more hotel rooms that were offering similar layouts, similar levels of provision and the same with the kitchen as well. And so you know, I I mean, just as we're trying to encourage independence in bathrooms and toilets and if we can't uh encourage independence then it's about creating safe working environments for carers, same goes for kitchens as well. We'd like to encourage independence and so of course what that means more often than not is um height adjustment of work surfaces. So if you're sat down or standing up, perhaps if you're restricted in height, then um surfaces can be brought down or up to your level. Uh and then um things like wall cupboards that could be situated above um a work surface, they can be brought down for for seated users so that they can get to the top shelf as well. Um so um yeah um Flat Spaces is is um a tremendous site and we were very uh honored and and privileged to be involved with that.
Thank you, Andrew, and thank you Rob. So, I just wanted to ask uh to the audience, if you want, if you have any question to any of us, please feel free to add them and we will try to answer them. Before I jump into my next question, just I wanted to share um our uh sponsorship uh information uh with the audience. Uh and um I think it will help you to understand um how you can support us and how we can support you like Pressalit. Um uh we uh they are supporting us and we also supporting Pressalit uh for their for different type of campaign and all of those things. So we are building our access advisor new site and um it we it will be launched uh with a live program as well, but we are just nearly finishing touching our new site. So uh if you go to the um if when we launch it, you can go to the package section and you will see that there will be a uh video over there. Uh we talk about access advisor and what we do and how it can benefit ourselves and as well as our clients and as well as the people uh that we wanted to serve. And the next section, you will find uh different um sponsor packages uh starting from Gateway sponsor to Impact and Inclusion sponsor. And uh you know that um we have come up with this idea uh to get this business ongoing. There are many other companies they are working in accessibility and all those things, but we think that we are unique because uh we are creating databases and thank you Rob that um till now we have like 3,000 places database on our site. So anyone, they are wanted to access uh to accessible place, they will find it from our databases. And with our new site, it will be more accessible and um you will find it um easily uh where you wanted to go and how you wanted to leave your review. So uh if uh you are watching this webinar and you wanted to share this webinar with your colleagues, friends or any businesses, if they wanted to support us, uh you can support us with three sponsorship um packages and as well as you can also uh be a partner uh with us, supporting our activities um uh in different, different ways. Um so that's all my introduction with the um our uh package and um thank you Andrew and thank you Rob uh for joining this live webinar. Uh we have uh another uh 10 to 15 minutes uh to talk about more about Pressalit as as you know, uh we are highlighting Pressalit today and we have other sponsors and we're going to be bringing them. Um we already brought um Hex Production on the last events and we are talking about Andrew um today for Pressalit and we're going to be bringing more sponsors. Uh those people they are helping us to get our project ongoing. And you know that without funding, it's not possible for me and Rob to continue this project to the next levels because every steps we take inquire um investment and as well as um a lot of other things. We also have a donate section on the page. So if people wanted to go over there and they wanted to donate, they can do it. And uh thank you, Andrew and Rob. So now, Andrew, I have another question. Uh how do Pressalit solution adapt to user evolving needs?
Um, well, yeah, evolving needs is is a very apt word. So, um something simple like um a a shower seat or a height adjustable sink or a set of height adjustable arms, because they adapt in height, they can change as and when user requirements change. So, uh it could be that for example, someone is ambulant at the moment, they're they're able to walk around, they choose to walk around. So they might need the sink at a higher level. But um if they have a condition which is progressive or changeable, evolves to something else perhaps in the future, maybe they're going to be sat in a chair later on, then the basin or the height adjustable hinged arms or the shower seat can be changed in height as and when required. So, um the Pressalit solutions that we have are largely adaptable so that they future proof the bathroom or the kitchen. So when needs change, you don't need to take everything off the wall and remount things and to reconfigure. The the individual elements within the bathroom will adapt and change as and when required.
Thank you very much, Andrew. Um the my next question is, you know that uh we talk about compliance, UK or other first world countries, um government or organization, they are very much into compliance. And for me, compliance is just tick boxes. Isn't it? But what is true accessibility in relation with compliance?
Um, well, compliance always doesn't provide um uh true accessibility. Um you're right. I mean, certainly in UK, we can be quite prescriptive, um which has its pros, but it also has its downside. Um I I perhaps been quite critical of the standard arrangements that we get in the building regulations. But the big advantage of that, having a prescriptive layout in the building regulations is that at least that is put in place. And there are some countries which don't have um such uh um recommendations in their building code. And so, uh you don't have the minimum requirement put in. So, um in many respects, we should be grateful that there are perhaps minimum requirements. And so it's a good thing, but the downside is when people won't go beyond that. Either because they're scared to because they they they think okay well I I don't know any better and therefore I don't want to mess around with what is in the building code or the regulations, um or because they they don't want to spend the money to improve things.
I think that's a very, very important point, that by at least by having standards, we have a starting point and there is, there is the possibility to push on with those standards and improve those standards every day, every month, you know, and try and let's get better at what we do. And by people saying what they need and having input into those standards, we can hopefully make a difference. And another thing that you touched on, I think was important was you said one size doesn't fit all and that's true with our accessibility reviews as well. We can tell, you know, someone can review something and it might be right for them but it doesn't mean it's right for everybody else. So what we're doing is offering suggestions or, you know, informative guides as to how we found it rather than saying you will find this because I don't have the same disability as someone else. Even someone with my disability will have varying needs and and lesser or worse needs than myself. So, you know, we are trying to provide accessibility solutions for everyone, not just one size fits all and I think that's a really important point that you made.
Yes. Yeah.
Yes, I totally agree with you um Andrew and Rob because uh when you apply for accessibility, if I think about um a council, okay? I have seen that most of them uh they uh their compliance is just like tick boxes, that you can have this, you can have that, you can have that. But when is just like individually, like you assess individual person and then, you know, facilitate that person need uh to your design, to your accessibility, you know, mechanism, then it makes a person specific, but otherwise, if you have like one standard for everyone, that will not fit for purpose and that's why disable people like me or like Rob or anyone else, we we have we are facing enormous struggle because we are we are being kept on a box because this is the things we do and this is the things you will get, but it's not like that they will assess specifically my need and then layout all those things. So as a company and the leading organization in the accessible toilets and kitchen, how do you overcome this barrier? Like when you talk to your clients, when you talk to the authority, how you uh administrated these gaps?
Yeah, well, I think um uh sometimes it's good to have some catchy recommendations or some take-homes that people can have that that challenge assumptions and challenge this um uh immediate response which is just to go to the building code and to put that in. So um when we're speaking with uh stakeholders, designers, architects, people like that, um one of our um statements is is that if we know who the user is uh of the bathroom or the kitchen and we're confident that nothing is going to change with uh their requirements, then you kind of just put in a a fixed arrangement of equipment which is going to be suitable for that person. But um if you don't know who the user is, or if you think that person, or you know that person has a a changeable condition, then you design for adaptation, you design for that room to adapt to those changing requirements. And so um we bring this message to a variety of different people and that's how we challenge this uh uh tick box mentality if you can call it that. Um that I think is uh more powerful when we're away from public access. But when we're within the realms of public access, it is admittedly a very difficult um thing uh to to bring to people and and to challenge that um what, well, that sort of just um knee-jerk reaction to go to just what's in um Part M. We can also tell people, we can remind people that Part M of the Building Regulations is the minimum requirement. And we can tell them where um the British Standard, BS 8300, which is the standard on access to buildings for um accessibility, uh and also part of the Building Regulations, which is also the same, um uh we we we can tell them where they they say, you know, try something a little bit different. So for example, if the toilet is um not very close to the corner, then Part M tells you put put two hinged arms either side. Part M does tell you this is a minimum requirement. So we can challenge those assumptions but admittedly, it's more difficult in the public access realm because people are scared to get it wrong. And they're scared perhaps of the um the building control officer that can pick them up and say this isn't in the building regulations, do it again or put it right.
Mhm. Thank you. Thank you Andrew.
Thank you. And I know we're coming up to the end of our time. So I just wanted to reiterate my thanks to Andrew and Pressalit for really supporting Access Advisor and and the way that you supported us in the past and we're glad to be working together again. It's really good and and thank you for that.
Oh, you're more than welcome. And and and we we're just happy to be working with uh someone who has the same um uh ethos and and ideas and thinking that we do.
Yeah, that that was a great pleasure to talking to you, Andrew. and Rob today. My last ask, do you wanted to say anything uh to our audience, Andrew?
Yeah, well, I I think um continue challenging. Uh, continue, continue challenging the status quo, um and uh you you won't always win, uh we don't, but um continue going for excellence, continue going for uh something that actually meets user requirements, whatever that is, for one individual or for a variety of different people, um continue going for solutions that encourage independence and if that isn't possible, uh go for solutions that provide a safe and comfortable working environment for the helpers that are working alongside the people that they're they're looking after. Um so that's very much part of what what we're about and uh Access Advisor as well and uh I'd want that in the wider society as well.
Thank you.
Thank you. And Rob, do you want to to say anything to our audience?
Yeah, I'm just reiterate what Andrew said and from an Access Advisor point of view, you know, please support us. We've got, we're across all the socials. You know, Access Advisor isn't me, it's not Dr. Shah, it's the community. It's it's the thousand people or so that are on Facebook. It's all of our YouTube subscribers, all of our followers on Blue Sky, all our business contacts on LinkedIn. You know, we're trying to create a sustainable business and we can't do that without your help. So please follow Access Advisor and please support Pressalit as well when you can.
Thank you Andrew and thank you Rob. Andrew, just stay on the line. Uh we're going to say bye bye to the audience and then we will see you uh bye-bye offline. So, uh thank you everyone for joining today's live webinar. I am your host, Dr. Shah Siddiki and uh we have Rob Trant and we're going to be saying you bye-bye. We will welcome you uh next month um our special Christmas um live events and we're going to be bringing some guests over there. Until next month, please stay tuned and please, please, please, we need your support so that any any form of support you can give it to us that will help us to bring this initiative to the next stage. And you know that to work on this accessibility, uh without funding and without support, we cannot grow. So until next episode, thank you very much for joining today's live and we will welcome you to the next episode of Access Advisor Accessibility live event. Thank you and bye-bye.